Forum:Sigils with wings
It is my theory that the wings on a sigil indicate that the person is head of their house. Additionally the winged sigil on machinery or troops signifies that they belong to the leader of the house. My theory stems from Tarvek in Stormhalten. Before his father dies the sigil worn around his neck is wingless but the sigil around Aaronev's neck has wings. After Aaronev dies Tarvek's neck sigil has wings. Additionally, Klaus has worn the wings from his very first appearance. We only see Gil wearing the wings after Klaus becomes incapacitated and Gil theoretically is the current head of the house. Agatha is not yet head of the Hetrodyne family. As I am writing this Der Kestle has just come back to life and Agatha's status is unknown. We do know that in the time windows she has wings on her trilobyte sigil. The problems with this theory is that Beetle does not wear the wings, nor do we ever see Bill or Barry wearing the wings. Kytross : I like the theory. I don't think your problems are significant. Dr. Beetle may have been given the civil position of head of MechanicsburgBeetleburg, but that doesn't mean he was the head of any noble house. Argadi 14:47, 8 August 2008 (UTC) : Bill and Berry were the 'Hetrodyne Boys' implying that they were still considered children during most of their adventures. A large percentage of their stories seem to come from when they were wandering the world, which they wouldn't have been allowed to do if either was actually in charge of Mechanicsburg. It is possible that one of their parents held the title as head of the family during the time the boys made themselves famous and they moved home when that parent died. Alternatively, they could have opted to share the power between the two of them meaning there was no one Head of House in the Hetrodyne family. evilauthor 06:05, 4 September 2008 :: Um, Dr. Beetle was tyrant of Beetleburg (although that seems to be a contradiction in terms, since the matching name implies some traditional ownership, whereas "tyrant" implies "usurper"). Had nothing to do with Mechanicsburg. Also, we've seen (non-canonical) sketches of Beetle's coat of arms. However, beetles (Coleoptera) already have two pair of wings, a second pair folded under the hard outer pair, so perhaps the Beetle heraldry would omit "wings as sign of sovereignty" as redundant. ⚙Zarchne 22:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC) :::I'd like to know where you get your info-- "tyrant" does not have and has never had the connotation of "usurper," to my knowledge. It has only ever meant one that rules with an iron fist, one who is totalitarian and usually cruel. ::::Tyrant also has an historical usage. --mnenyver 00:44, 10 December 2008 (UTC) :: I don't see the Heterodyne Boys wandering around on adventures for the better part of twenty years to be at odds with them also being in charge of Mechanicsburg during the same time period. The information I recall from The Secret Blueprints implies that their mother poisoned their father (and was killed in the process) about the time they came of age - which means that there would not have been any parents holding down the fort while they were out cleaning up the mess left behind by the Long War. That doesn't mean there weren't minions holding the fort down for them, though; after all, it doesn't seem that their ancestors worried much about being gone for years at a time (heck, from Da Boyz' story, the Red Heterodyne even delayed coming back from one outing by a year, just because he'd acquired a taste for bat sandwiches) - I doubt Bill and Barry, idealists that we're told they are, would have worried at all about someone snatching the family home out from under them while they were out adventuring. ::Plus, it's never implied that they were out on one continuous journey the whole twenty years - I suspect that they came back to Mechanicsburg regularly enough to recuperate from one adventure or another, and to generally be Sparky, that no one really seriously considered it a wise idea to try and snitch their home base out from under them. ::I don't see Beetle being referred to as Tyrant of Beetleburg being a contradiction, either - perhaps it's just that I've read too much Pratchett, but to me "Tyrant" implies someone who rules (or is viewed as ruling) with an iron fist and, while they probably know the definition of mercy, they're not likely to see much use for it (although they are quite likely to be fair - just not merciful). Seems to fit what we know of Beetle so far. Voloscheur 22:27, 23 September 2008 (UTC) : Hmmm... The theory I had heard was that the wings were a sign of 'loyalty' to Klaus and the Baron's Peace. This might not be a true indicator of their loyalty, but at least an outward sign of things. For example, while Aaronev was plotting, he was showing the outward signs of fealty. -- Donovan Ravenhull 18:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC) :: On the other hand, it could be a sign of status... Beetleburg may be a barony or freehold, while Sturmhalten is a principality. ⚙Zarchne 22:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC) Right after I first saw the "winged rook" sigil, I was reminded of the old Army Air Corp insignia, which was a shield sporting two eagles wings. I think the symbol is the de facto insignia for Wulfenbach because their family seat is now a Flying Castle (get it?). I think that wings on a sigil are indicative of weapons/forces that fly or are at least in the air. Can anyone confirm winged sigil sightings on forces that are specifically stationedon land? Keep in mind, any Wulfenbach troops are detached from aerial transports. --Superanth 16:48, 26 August 2008 (UTC) Sorry buddy, looks like its a no--the Mecha Mole Brigade uses the winged sigil too. 21:13, July 26 2009 (UTC) I just assumed that the sigil of House Wulfenbach, the winged tower, and the sigil of House Heterodyne, the trilobite, were combined to form a winged trilobite following the union of the two houses, which I had further assumed resulted from the marriage of Agatha and Gil. --RichardAK :That's what I assumed too, until someone pointed out that Tarvek's sigil also had wings, so it could have been a marriage to him as well. :: Precisely. Since we've seen the sigil of a sword through a gear both with and without wings, and we saw it with wings in Aaronev's throne room, it would indeed appear that the wings indicate the reigning member of a house. Originally, I had indeed assumed the wings were added to the Wulfenbach symbol once it moved to a flying castle. :: This means that the glimpse of Agatha in the future just means that she is now the reigning Heterodyne... and so we aren't driven to the conclusion that Gil's ironic reference to Agatha as "mistress" involves, in addition to the Geisterdamen form of address, also her new status as Mrs. Gilgamesh Wulfenbach in addition to Lady Agatha Heterodyne. --Quadibloc 16:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC) I think everybody is way too worked up about the wings. Although I don't have any theory of my own to share, I suspect you're all at least half-wrong but we won't find out until Blueprints II is finally published. Corgi 04:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC) :My dear lady, you know we cannot survive without overanylizing every little detail. ;) --Donovan Ravenhull 05:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC) :Well, about the only thing you can really read from a sigil is the same thing you can read from any work of art, which is what the creator intended it to be a representation of. In the case of relatively abstract sigils, the intent can be difficult to tell without knowing the history of the creator (why trilobites? why towers?). Tarvek, being the doppleganger he is, probably trotted out one of his pre-made Sturmvoraus sigils with wings in the wake of Aaronev's death, to show what a good little vassal of Wulfenbach he is to the inevitable quester. In private, the entire Sturmvoraus family obviously thinks themselves sovereign, so they wear the unadulterated Sturmvoraus symbol. They probably even have sigils handy that combine the Sturmvoraus sigil with a feature from the sigils of pretty much every other power in Europe, in case they have to one day swear fealty to someone else. :It's pretty much the same with any work of art, including webcomics, and there are people who like to entertain themselves looking for deeper meanings. It's only a problem when people lose sight of the first and final reason why anything is included in any work of art... "Because the artist made it that way." Tatter D 16:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC) I don't think so. Wooster is wearing a winged Wolfenbach sigil here, and he's certainly not the head of the house. I think its just a general heraldic symbol. For the Wolfenbach's a winged castle has a fairly obvious meaning, given the nature of Castle Wolfenbach. Brianmce 08:54, 27 November 2008 (UTC) :The Wulfenbach sigil might be an exception. The non-winged version of the Wulfenbach sigil was back when Castle Wulfenbach was an actual land-bound castle. Also, at that point, Wulfenbach was apparently a . Now, Wulfenbach is significant. I'm not sure how significant House Sturmvoraus, but they're probably . So it's possible the wings are an acknowledgement of the status of one's House - thus House Heterodyne in the Future has risen in rank and has the wings. :That alone doesn't explain , where Agatha is wearing the now-infamous Winged Heterodyne sigil and Moloch, right next to her, is wearing the regular Trilobite. So it could perhaps signify the Head of a house of significance, or those acting under their immediate command? Thus Wooster, as Gil's personal valet, and the troops of Sturmvoraus, get to wear the wings, but Moloch isn't significant enough in the Heterodyne ranks? Keeping in mind that this is Future Heterodyne sigil, perhaps the seneschal will get wings on his as well? :And now, re-reading various parts, I see (look right under the word balloon that says "He was named at Master William's insistence.") - there's a Winged Heterodyne sigil there as well. The House was more significant back then, certainly, but since the disappearance of all KNOWN Heterodynes, it would've fallen. Or maybe the wings mean something else entirely - the wings seem to be a motif on the memorial stones there. --Socks 16:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC) ::That last bit strikes me as correct: wings are a pretty common motif on gravestones. --Cantabrian 15:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Apologies if this duplicates a theory elsewhere -- in fact, I'm sure I've read it elsewhere, but I can't find it here. In any event, I think this is right: I reckon that attaching wings to one's sigil indicates that one forms a part of the Pax Wulfenbachia. It's not QUITE fealty to Wulfenbach, but it amounts to the same thing. Beetle was an exception: Beetleburg seems to have been an enclave in Wulfenbach lands (or, at least, was until the death of Dr Beetle). Likewise, Mechanicsburg's ancient liberties have been recognized with special treatment under Wulfenbach rule. Sigils without wings which (under this theory) ought to have them are, I reckon, just old. After all, Wulfenbach hasn't been in charge for very long. Thus, I agree that in The Future, House Heterodyne has signed up to the Wulfenbach alliance -- or maybe the symbolism has changed by then. But I reckon that's the answer. --Cantabrian 15:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Socks: there is not a Winged Trilobite on the gravestone. There is a Trilobite with a ribbon behind it above the text, and there is a picture surrounded by wings below it, but no Winged sigil. I admit that if you don't look too closely, the picture with wings on either side might appear to be a trilobite- and that is, in the context, an understandible mistake. BUT when you actually look at it, you'll see it's a picture of a small child with its head cut off. Also note that the surrounding gravestones also have "winged pictures"; one has a book, and the other does appear to have a winged trilobite on it. My guess is that those pictures represent either cause of death, or something that was very significant to that person. If the latter is true, then Klaus Barry's picture still makes sense, seeing as he had a very short lifetime. Now, my theory on the whole Winged Sigil matter is basically these points: *Some sigils just have wings, period, and they mean nothing significant, politically. *Sometimes wings on sigils indicates a rise in power, meaning that either the house itself plays a significant role, or the wearer of the sigil is significant to the house. *Sometimes a winged sigil signifies a joining of two houses; if house A was a... winged sword or something, and house B was a unicorn, then you get a unicorn with wings. Personally, I support the last theory in the case of Agatha's winged trilobite, because that would mean that there was a Heterodyne- Wulfenbach alliance. :) HeterodyneGirl (talk) 00:45, September 25, 2012 (UTC) Just thought of something. Here Agatha had a winged sigil, but Von Zinzer didn't. Maybe that means that Agatha, personally, has a connection to Wulfenbach, but the House of Heterodyne as a whole remains seperate. In other words, Even though they might have an alliance or whatever, they're still two distinctly seperate houses. HeterodyneGirl (talk) 00:15, September 26, 2012 (UTC) Okay this might sound a little crazy (even for this forum), but when I first saw Agatha's Flying Trilobite I'd assumed that wherever she was based now was a flying...something, just like Castle Wulfenbach. Now assuming it isn't Castle Wulfenbach, could Castle Heterodyne fly? Or some part of it? I wouldn't doubt the Heterodyne family could have a big airship somewhere in mothballs, just in case...RebuiltHumanThree (talk) 17:49, December 27, 2012 (UTC)